and that voters have a higher opinion of the nra than they do hollywood. and let's ignore the numbers that gun ownership in 2011 spiked to record levels not because more men, republicans, or southerners were buying them, but because more women, democrats, and people living in every region of the country but the south were. true story. no, let's take a position that we believe in and a message that works well for conservatives and change it to try to win voters who are uneasy about gun rights to begin with and who weren't going to vote republican anyway. that makes a ton of sense. if the only way to win new voters is to lose current voters, i'm pretty sure that math isn't going to work out too well for us. we have to take every opportunity we can to agree with one another instead of reveling in the opportunities to disagree. i love the intellectual diversity of our party. let's celebrate it without fetishizing it. that does it for us in the cycle. martin, it's all yours. >> thank you so much. good afternoon. it's tuesday, february 12th, and

the president deals with a new threat from north korea just hours before delivering his state of the union address. >> north korea's latest provecation, the reclusive communist country announced that it conducted a third nuclear test. >> north korea's foreign ministry is threatening measures of greater intensity. >> it seems to be designed to coincide with president obama's state of the union address. >> they represent a serious threat to the united states. >> this is a serious challenge to the obama administration. >> security council just met to discuss north korea's highly provocative nuclear test. >> this one has set off some alarm bells, particularly because of the size of the blast. >> this is really a message for the united states. >> one thing that would get their attention and china's attention is if you give nuclear weapons to south korea and china. i think he looks like a knuckle

head. >> like a nincompoop. ♪ >> we are now less than five hours away from the president's state of the union address where he'll lay out the agenda for his second term in office. and it's safe to assume that his preparations received a severe jolt this morning with the disturbing news that north korea had carried out another nuclear weapons test in violation of the united nations, and this one significantly stronger than their two previous tests. and it's in this alarming context that republicans are seeking at this very moment to stymie the president's nominee for secretary of defense. the senate armed services committee has been considering the nomination of chuck hagel for more than an hour, and all against a backdrop of republican opposition. >> with respect to chuck hagel

and brennan, defense and cia just in the last week, their performance in front of the committees that have to confirm them has been pretty poor. >> i don't think we should allow brennan to go forward for the cia directorship, hagel to be confirmed to secretary of defense until the white house gives us an accounting. >> and so as the president prepares to address the nation focusing on flash points overseas and major challenges at home from gun violence to unemployment and immigration, attention also falls upon whether the republican party will spend the next four years doing exactly what it has done for the last four, opposing and obstructing everything that this president has sought to achieve. for more now let's go right to nbc's kristin welker who is live for us at the white house. good afternoon. what's the white house reaction been to word that republican senators may try to hold up the nomination of chuck hagel? >> reporter: well, martin, the

white house says it's a numbers game, and they believe that they have the votes to get the nomination through. talking to my sources here, they believe that they have at least 55 votes when it comes to democrats and independents and then at least another two republican votes and then you have senators like john mccain saying that they are not going to back afilibustl a filibuste. so they are still confident that chuck hagel's nomination will be confirmed. you have mitch mcconnell coming out suggesting he might try to slow walk this process. majority leader harry reid saying he's not going to let that happen. again, the white house at this hour, martin, still confident that hagel will be confirmed. >> and this in the context of what happened last night. what are your sources telling you about the likelihood of the president referencing north korea and its nuclear weapons test in his speech tonight? >> reporter: well, martin, my sources are telling me it is very likely that he is going to reference what happened in north korea overnight. remember, the white house put out a statement overnight

condemning the action saying that it was a highly provocative action. i can also tell you that president obama spoke to the president of south korea today. they shared their concerns about this third nuclear launch, what is perceived to be really the most aggressive nuclear test that north korea has conducted to date. the u.n. security council con seming it, including north korea's closest ally in the region, china, condemning the action overnight. i think you can expect to hear president obama address this threat. my source is telling me he will talk about the fact that north korea serves to only further isolate itself with these types of provocative actions and it will call on that country to cease these actions if it wants to rejoin the world and internation community. >> kristin welker, thank you so much. joining us now is democratic congressman charles rangel of new york. good afternoon, sir. >> hi, martin. >> given the seriousness of this latest nuclear provocation from north korea, can you please

explain to us why republicans think it's a good idea to block the immediate appointment of a defense secretary? >> it really is heart-breaking with all the international problems that we have in the middle east and now what's happening in north korea to believe that a couple of senators can just because of their own pettiness can hold up the president's appointments. it seems as though every issue now that the president is bringing up he has to take to the american people, and i'm glad, i hope he gets angry enough to realize that you just can't do business with these people and that the american people have spoken and that he ought to get out there and remind them that in order to fulfill this mandate, they have to get behind their members of the house and get behind their senators and tell them to get on with the job of making america

safe. >> congressman, you fought as a soldier during the korean war. what would it have been like had democrats told president eisenhower, sorry, we don't like your nominee for defense secretary because he's a democrat. >> it's a terrible thing. it's a terrible thing for republicans and democrats to believe that a president of the united states sf trying to bring peace to the world. it's not just what happens between republicans and democrats. it's how we're seen in the world. does china recognize that if she doesn't cut off the umbilical cords to north korea, that japan may want their own nuclear weapon? everyone can't come to the united states and make certain that we resolve all of the problems that we face, but they should believe that we are united as one nation and that when we speak, we expect other democracies to come and to share this responsibility. but if the word gets out that

the president's cabinet cannot get the support of its own government, albeit that there are just a handful of republicans, then the whole credibility of the united states not only in national security but in fiscal responsibility as -- >> but you see, here is the problem, sir. a new abc news/"washington post" poll shows overwhelmingly people like this president's policies and they don't like the gop's. now, given the republican's performance over the last four years, do you expect exactly the same in terms of obstruction, opposition for the next four years and can this country afford almost a decade of republican obstruction? >> the president gave them a free ride when he came to affordable health care. he tried to compromise. he listened to both sides. he allowed them to put up 32 different amendments. i think this time he has to go

directly to the american people. this is his last shot out to give a report to the entire american people as to what he wants to see for america, get our jobs back, make certain that we have education, make certain that we have a secure national defense and to make certain that we rebuild our infrastructure. you can't do this sitting down with a group of guys that are crying in their own beer because of what happened to their own mitt romney. i don't know how many people they got to have this evening responding to the president, but the only people that the president has to respond to is the american people, not a handful of republicans, and i hope that after this speech that he can unite us all, that we can get out there and let the republicans know the election is over, the american people have spoken, and they're not on the agenda. >> congressman, i have to say to you that even before the president has spoken, here is john boehner, the speaker of the

house, who said this about the president and tackling fiscal issues. to do the kind of heavy lifting that needs to be done, i don't think he's got the guts to do it. and then later says boehner, he doesn't have the courage to take on the liberal side of his own party. sir, i'm shot sure which is more deeply hypocritical, john boehner criticizing the president over his leadership ability or dick cheney dismissing his foreign policy record. which is worse? >> i tell you one thing, i think boehner has his own internal problems and that he shouldn't run out there and get in the president's way because in doing that he's getting in the american people's way. i think it's time that people want to see us go above party and think in terms of our country. i think they're exhausted at the partisan politics and now is the time to rembuild america and moe forward. >> i thought it was speaker bain mother didn't have the guts to do a grand bargain deal with the

president because he was frightened of eric cantor in 2011. now he's saying it's the president who doesn't have the guts. i mean, this is total revisionism, isn't it? >> well, you can see that boehner wants everyone to respond to the president, the tea party, the republican party. if there was a moderate part of the republican party, i guess there will be a chance to respond, too. i don't really think that boehner is speaking for the american people or the republicans for that matter. i think that he is trying to keep these primaries -- tea party primaries down, and by doing that, they're scared to death of tea party candidates that are more conservative. what we have to do now is bring america together and let the tea party and the republicans fight it out and move forward with a positive agenda. that's what the people voted for and that's what they deserve to have. >> and so, congressman, do we expect another four years of

obstruction and opposition from republicans in the house? is that what the american people should prepare themselves for? just as we've had four years in the past, so we're going to have another four to come. >> i don't think the president of the united states is going to waste any more time trying to negotiate with these people. four years almost was wasted as he had to get every democrat to vote for the affordable care act and to get no support at all from republicans. they have proven just how far they're willing to go to embarrass the president of the united states, to embarrass the fiscal integrity of the united states, to really put in jeopardy our national security. i really think that it's time now for the president to go back to the american people and to say that if they want the things that he has promised to do in the campaign, the campaign is not over. they have to get on the telephone and call republicans and tea party and whomever is in

washington saying give the country a break and get off the president's back. >> congressman charles rangel of new york, sir, enjoy this evening and thank you for joining us. >> thank you, martin. >> next, as we draw nearer to the state of the union, dick cheney reminds us why we miss dick cheney. stay with us. >> i think that the president's performance boy my standards in the international arena, the middle east and so forth, is worse than many of my friends and colleagues deem his domestic policies. simply stated, there is no doubt that saddam hussein now has weapons of mass destruction. my doctor told me calcium is efficiently absorbed in small continuous amounts. citracal slow release continuously releases calcium plus d with efficient absorption in one daily dose. citracal slow release. bob will retire when he's 153,

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oriole thrush, former vice president dick cheney continues to leave a bad taste in the mouth. today this warmongering revisionist who once shot one of his best friends in the face, offered a remarkable judgment on the president's approach to foreign policy. >> i think the administration's policies are terribly flawed. i think the president's performance by my standards in the international arena, the middle east and so forth, is worse than many of my friends and colleagues deem his domestic policies. >> joining us now is dana milbank, a political columnist for "the washington post." dana, dick cheney says by my standards in the international arena. by his standards we believe bogus intelligence about the existence of nuclear weapons, we invade iraq though that nation had nothing to do with 9/11 and sacrifice the lives of 5,000 lives. we sell this nonsense about

bulldozing national governments and imposing democracy when all it produces are civil war and injure genesee. by his own standards he's a failure, isn't he? >> by his own standards you can be taken away to some black site for gitmo for questioning vice president cheney in such a way. but, yes, actually the case is worse than you stated. he actually said that iraq had reconstituted nuclear weapons. he was suggesting they were a nuclear power. he went further than anybody in the bush administration to implicate iraq in the 9/11 attacks. but another things that dick cheney did during his vice presidency was to question the patriotism of anybody who criticized president bush and that administration's policies. by his own standard he is now suggesting that he is not patriotic, but, of course, i would never suggest such a thing. >> you wouldn't wish to be banished to a prison. mr. cheney refers to the president's nominations of chuck hagel and john brennan as,

quote, dismal and second rate. and today explained what he meant. take a listen. >> with respect to chuck hagel and brennan, defense and cia, just in the last week, their performance in front of the committees that have to confirm them has been pretty poor. the president has made choices in part based on people who won't argue with him. >> dana, i apologize for addressing mr. cheney's amnesia, but john brennan served as deputy director of the cia under bush and cheney as well as director of the national counterterrorism center. does this mean dick cheney agreed to appoint a dismal and second rate individual to these crucial positions when he was in power? >> well, certainly vice president cheney would prefer if this administration were nominating people like scooter libby who was convicted and sentenced for things he did while serving as vice president cheney's chief of staff. it's not perplexing that cheney

would take issue with chuck hagel who was a big critic of the iraq war. a little more perplexing on brennan who not only has served in republican and democratic administrations alike but got good marks from the republicans who were questioning him. >> okay. well, in that interview today, mr. cheney says he supports the president's approach to the use of drones, which i guess is hardly surprising, but if dick cheney recommends something, does it not behoove us to have second thoughts about it? >> well, you know what? it behooves us to have second thoughts about how they're going about this. i compare this to the iraq war which was very popular in public opinion polls early on, as is the drone policy, but by not being forthright and open and honest with the public, the iraq war obviously became a real albatross and the drone program could become the same way. so it's an argument not to do this in utter secrecy as they have been doing it to actually shine the light of day on it. >> in fact, you must be

telepathic. as you know i read everything you write. this is what you say on the use of drones. the iraq war was initially popular before it took a disare a terous turn, and though a large majority of americans support the drone warfare program, it is far more skeptical of killings that target u.s. citizens. do you expect the use of drones to be perhaps scaled back if john brennan becomes director of the cia? >> i certainly don't think so, martin, because he's in many ways the architect of this program and has overseen the dramatic expansion -- >> so you don't think the more recent public scrutiny will actually affect the administration's use of drones? >> i don't think it will affect the use of drones. what needs to be done is they actually have to be procedures and policies in place so congress or the courts can oversee it. at some point it may not be john brennan and barack obama overseeing it program. it may be something like dick cheney and the nation needs to have some standards in place for when that occurs. >> lord forbid. dana milbank, thank you, sir.

coming up, marco rubio and rand paul both vote against the violence against women act. a great start to their rebuttals to the state of the union. don't you think? stay with us. [ male announcer ] here's a fun fact: this single scoop of gain gives more freshness than a whole box of this other stuff... and that much freshness is gonna take some getting used to... [ sniffing ] ahh. mmm! [ male announcer ] yep, it's amazing what a single scoop of gain freshness can do. get more freshness from gain or get your money back, guaranteed. i'm here to pick up some cacti. dana milbank, thank you, sir. or. get a shareable pool of data... got enough joshua trees? ... on up to 25 devices. so you can spend less time... yea, the golden barrels... managing wireless costs and technology and more time driving your business potential. coming up, marco rubio and ah! oh! ow!

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bring out chicken broccoli alfredo. or best-ever meatloaf. go to campbellskitchen.com for recipes, plus a valuable coupon. campbell's. it's amazing what soup can do. we have breaking news on former 34ri6r christopher dorner. there's a flurry of activity related to his search in the vicinity of big bear, california. nbc's john yang is in burbank with more. john, what can you tell us? >> reporter: martin, this is all in big bear lake. this is where the search has been focused, where dorner's truck was found on thursday burned out. what we do know, there's a lot of sort of fluid activity. what we do know is that there appears to have been at least two people who have been tied up in a house. it's believed that dorner was holed up there for a while. he then took off in one of the vehicles belonging to that house. there was a chase on a highway outside big bear lake. we understand that there may

have been an accident. the car may have slammed into a tree and that dorner, we understand, this is all from radio scanner traffic, then ran into the woods. so the search is ongoing. this is the first time there has been this strong evidence of a sighting of dorner since thursday, since his truck was found burning outside big bear lake. it had weapons in it. it had camping equipment inside, and an intense search has been going on. big bear lake a resort area east of los angeles in the san bernardino mountains. a lot of cabins, a lot of second homes, a lot of them empty, and they have been going door to door searching since last week, since thursday, but now we are getting reports hf some sort of activity, apparently two people tied up and now a chase, a car chase on a highway outside of

san bernardino -- or outside big bear lake in san bernardino county. we are still trying to get more details, martin. that's about all we know right now. >> john, this comes at a point and coincides with both a reward being offered for his capture and also a widespread advertising campaign using public billboards on highways. >> that's exactly right. they announced yesterday a reward of $1 million, the biggest ever offered by the lapd being chipped in from local governments, from local law enforcement agencies, local companies, even the los angeles dodgers chipping in money. they have been -- the trail seemed to have gone cold. this is, as they say, the first time we've had any solid evidence of where he might be since that truck was found on thursday. it also comes a day after the riverside county district attorney's office, which is where he killed one police officer and fired on another,

filed murder charges against him and also murder charges involving a peace officer which carries the death penalty. that also allowed them to get a warrant, a federal warrant, so that no matter where he was found, if he had left california and gone elsewhere, they could have been able to try to extradite him and bring him back to california, but it now appears that he is still in the area in san bernardino county. martin? >> john yang with the very latest. thanks so much, john, and we will, of course, keep you updated as we learn more. stay with us. the day's "top lines" are coming up. to compete on the global stage. what we need are people prepared for the careers of our new economy. by 2025 we could have 20 million jobs without enough college graduates to fill them. that's why at devry university, we're teaming up with companies like cisco to help make sure everyone is ready with the know-how we need for a new tomorrow. [ male announcer ] make sure america's ready. make sure you're ready. at devry.edu/knowhow.

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pope. >> what would they know about appealing to a floundering organization dominated by old white men clinging to an arcane moral code who nus reluctantly ex brace change to stay relevant. >> when we hire the president of the united states, he gets to live in the big house, makes all that money, he is getting paid to make difficult, difficult decisions. >> there's a little more pressure on the president to have an effective state of the union. >> boehner can be a pretty emotional guy. he's known to cry. this speech is no exception. >> this is the window. if he's ever going to motivate congress to do it. jots jo . >> this is a terrible assignment for anybody to look. >> you don't look generally good in comparison to the president. >> who picks rubio? >> the big kahunas on the hill. >> in rubio the republicans have probably one of their best communicators since ronald reagan. >> i think tupac's lyrics were probably more insightful. >> inheritor of the initial

bachmann herman cain legacy will be united states senator rand paul. >> i'm afraid president obama may have this kings complex. if i were president i would have relieved you of your post. >> this throws a wrench in the works. >> i see it as extra response. i don't see it as necessarily divisive. >> which one do you pick? >> let's get right to our panel. i'm joined by joy reid who is the managing editor of the grio.com and karen finney. the president's speech is now just a few hours off, as you know, and the response is twofold tonight. we have the great marco rubio and then even further right we have senator rand paul. he's calling it complementary, not contradictory, but is there anything more symbolic in the republican party than two people giving the rebuttal? >> no, i think it is actually a

perfect sim bog of where the republican party is now. you have the establishment choice, which is the hey, brown people, strategy. marco rubio has got to be our front man, we have to shove him out in front of us every chance we get. he has two "o"s, the end of his first name and last name. it doesn't get more hispanic than that. people claim he's the tea party guy. he gave a magazine interview in which he stood himself at kind of arm's length from the tea party. he cottoned to them when he needed to run and win. he's very pragmatic that way, but a lot of tea party people are skeptical of them. when you have rand paul who is as pure a tea party guy as it gets. he's going to be rubio's biggest competition should he actually run in 2016. you're previewing the 2016 primary. >> i was going to say, is this a response to tonight or a dress rehearsal for the republican primaries 2016? >> it's a bit of a dress rehearsal but it's also indicative of the problem that

the republican party has right now, right? because rubio from what we've read is going to go out and talk about, you know, obama's government-centered ideology. well, that was the romney talking points that didn't work. so that's the establishment talking points. and then you're going to have rand paul, who knows what he's going to say, and i have to say, with the presence of ted nugent in the hall, that just shows you the republican party is all over the map. clearly out of control. there was nobody who could step in and say to rand paul, no, you can't do this. there was nobody who could say, now, you can't bring ted nugent here. that shows you how out of control they are right now. >> listen to what karl rove says about rubio's assignment. listen to this. >> first of all, this is a terrible assignment for anybody to get. democrat or republican. you don't look generally good in comparison to the president of the united states. >> now, you'll remember that when bobby jindal gave his speech he appeared to deliver it outside a men's lav ratory in a

cheap hotel. >> sounds like kenneth the page most people thought, too. how is karl rove still on tv giving his opinion about anything? isn't he wrong about everything? it is a bad assignment. everybody who had to do it, bob mcdonald didn't look good, poor bobby ginned cal. and also making him peak too early. it's almost sabotage. gee likes to compare himself to barack obama but think about the way obama very carefully managed his sort of entrance and sort of the way he sort of rolled himself out, right? he was very low key in the beginning even though there was a lot of star power to him, and he kind of brought himself out on very substantive issues. i mean, rubio, i guess immigration is substantive even though it's not hiss own grds necessa ideas necessarily. here he is on covers, the savior. >> he's wrapping himself in the republican brand.

right now the republican brand is badly damaged. so he's got to submit himself with them where as to your point, karen, when barack obama did it, he did it on his own terms. >> i have to interrupt you because we have an update now on the manhunt for former police officer christopher dorner. nbc's john yang is in burbank. john, what can you tell us? >> right now we have indications of a gunfight going on on a highway outside of big bear lake. we can hear gunfire on the radio scanners. there are now a report from -- that our l.a. station knbc has that a state fish and wildlife officer, at least one has been wounded. on police scanners there are requests for an armored vehicle to go in and help with ems, emergency medical services, to try to get that officer out. there is some reports on scanners of another officer wounded, but we -- knbc, our nbc station in los angeles has confirmed that one officer has been wounded. this is going on now as we

speak. to recap what happened is that in big bear lake, this area that has been searched since last week for christopher dorner, police -- sheriff's officers responded to a call about a home invasion. when they got there, they found that two people had been tied up in a home there, one was able to get loose and make that call. when they got there, they were able to chase dorner who was fleeing in a car stolen -- a pickup truck stolen from that residence owned by one of the people in that residence. they have now chased him to a point on a highway outside big bear lake. we understand that there may have been an accident, that the vehicle that dorner was driving and may have been incapacitated and now we are getting reports of a gunfight, exchange of fire between police and dorner outside big bear lake, california. >> we're going to take a listen to the helicopter pilot who is

working for our affiliate knbc in california for a moment. let's take a listen. >> safely extracted from the danger zone now, and now it is a very fluid standoff between the suspect down below and sheriff's deputies, fish and game, all kinds of law enforcement up here in angelos national forest. this area is on lockdown. >> john, we were just hearing there that there appears to be some kind of standoff between mr. dorner and armed police officers. is that right? >> it does sound like they've got him essentially -- i don't know this for a fact but perhaps cornered. remember, in his manifesto online he said that any police was fair game, were as he put it high value targets. this could be what he was trying to do all along is to try to get

into some sort of final standoff with police. also in that statement he said that self-preservation was no longer an issue, that he felt his life had ended when he was dismissed from the lapd when he lost his badge in january 2009. when you read through that long message, it has a feel of a suicide note in a lot of ways, and this i think is what -- that law enforcement officials had had long feared might have -- might be the end, and it does seem to be playing out that way, that they are now in a standoff with christopher dorner in the mountains, the snowy mountains of san bernardino county east of los angeles. there has been gunfire. at least state fish and wildlife officer has been wounded we understand, and they are now trying to get his -- get him out thereof so he can get medical attention. >> john stay with us. we're going to tap into the

local affiliatek n knbc who are reporting. >> the interesting thing that i also heard was automatic gunfire i heard as well. >> automatic gunfire we have been hearing reports about that, too. also chilling, the kill zone, the description that you heard on the scanner, and, again, as i just want to walk people through the picture they're seeing live on our air here at 1:39. this is a picture from news chopper 4 above the seven oaks area off highway 38 where a report of a man matching the description of christopher dorner crashed a vehicle, took off on foot, and by all indications there is an active search, manhunt, and potential firefight under way right now in the woods of big bear. >> they're saying there is a gunfight going on or it has been going on for a number of minutes. as you were saying, as jacob was saying, as news chopper 4 was

saying, automatic gunfire has been been ringing out. anna garcia talking to her sources saying possibly the way christopher dorner has been able to sustain his life since his firing from lapd back in 2008 is possibly through making weapons and selling weapons and dealing with weapons, which is why he may have quite a stash of weapons at his disposal. >> he detailed in his manifesto how he was able to purchase these weapons legally. at the same time he talked about the need for gun control. here is a man, if we could bring back in dr. robert shu g,g, a forensic psychologist, as we're getting reports that a man matching the description of christopher dorner is here in the woods and there's an active search for him. talk about his state of mind given all the threats that have been made and what has led up to this point. >> right, when i got here this

was all evolving. the big question is, is he in control or out of control? it looks like these are the behaviors of somebody who is probably out of control. i would imagine desperation, i would imagine fright, you know, all of these things going on right now. anything could happen at this point. >> we want to reinforce to parents who have children in the bear valley area that bear valley unified school district reports four schools are on full lockdown. big bear high school added to the list. baldwin lane elementary, fallsville elementary, and chautauqua high school. the district wants to make sure parents do not go to the school to pick you have your children at this point in time. of course, we will monitor this situation as this gunfight off of highway 38 plays out. >> and, doctor, to bring you back in here, christopher dorner laid out in that manifesto that he was intending to die. >> right. >> saying he would not see all of this come to a resolution. >> that's right. >> so what does that tell you

about what he may be doing out here in the woods and the safety of those officers? obviously we're hearing reports that potentially one, maybe two, officers down, very frightening situation unfolding. >> this is a man who does not want to be taken ally. he said if. if we're going to take him at his word, this could be it. >> we hear that phrase suicide by cop thrown out here and there. this certainly looks like it could be in your eyes a situation like that. >> right. and i sort of predicted a few days ago that he might sort of enjoy this kind of televised grand finale to his life, and this is exactly what's happening right now. >> one wonders why he made his move when he did? >> i'm wondering if the search got a little too close to him. maybe he ran out of food in the cabin. maybe he was just feeling a little too paranoid and that he had to get out. like he saw his chance. >> our anna garcia saying that reportedly it's possible that one of these hostages was able to break free, make some sort of 911 call, report that vehicle

stolen. who knows how this was initiated. if all of this is true, that means for days now, since last thursday, he may have been watching all of this unfold on tv. >> he absolutely has been watching all of this if he was in that cabin, if they had electricity and if they had any type of tv signal. joo >> of course he was. >> this is a man that was watching it play by play. anna garcia had told us earlier and the riverside county sheriff's department has gone ahead and reinforced that this did happen today with the couple tied up in their home. we are getting new information from our producers. we're going to be quiet for a couple seconds here. >> we've just been listening to our local station knbc reporting a standoff between 33-year-old christopher dorner and police officers in that area of the big bear region.

the associated press is reporting that it's believed christopher dorner committed a residential burglary of a cabin and had tied up a couple. he was then able to get away -- sorry, one member within that family was able to get away and make a call to the emergency services. there are also reports that one individual, a state wildlife officer, may have been wounded in a shootout. there was a coall for ems, and it's believed mr. dorner is currently in a standoff with the police in that region that we're looking at now and we'll go back now -- we have former fbi profiler clint van zandt with us. clint, what's your reaction to what's playing out right at this moment? >> well, martin, this is one of the scenarios i think we've considered from the beginning. as you know, there were hundreds of cabins in that area where his broken down or on fire vehicle was found, and i think there was

speculation amongst law enforcement that this could have evolved into a hostage situation, that he could have found his way to a cabin that was occupied, held those occupants hypothetically at gunpoint until he saw a chance to make a run for it one way or the other or until that was forced upon him by law enforcement. we know that we were told there was a cabin by cabin search, but, you know, one can think of a number of scenarios where one person would come to the door and under duress wouldn't be able to tell that dorner was there. all that be that as it may, right now the information we're hearing, of course, is that he was in a vehicle, that vehicle was in a crash or an accident, that he may or may not be on foot, and, martin, if he is on foot, no matter how many guns or how much ammunition, he can only carry so much with him. there's probably going to be a lot found in the vehicle, but right now law enforcement will

work very hard to put a perimeter. they'll try to put if they have to a rolling or a moving perimeter around him to keep him in the middle of that perimeter and everybody else outside of that. that will be done first by the responding officers on the scene and then if they need to and s.w.a.t. arrives on the scene, they'll put tactical teams in place. they'll form that inner perimeter, try to get him in a position where they can either get him to surrender or deal with him tactically. >> do you think this has been his intention all along, for some kind of grand finale to his spree of shooting and then being on the run? >> he may have had a number of options. i think, you know, and again this is pure speculation -- >> of course. >> we know that his one demand was that the case he was involved in, the allegations that he made against another police officer that were found

to be false and led to his termination by the police department, he, of course, had demanded a review of that, and i think had he been able to wait a little while longer, maybe not make this break, i think he still wanted to know what that review is, but, martin, this is a smart man. this is a college-educated law enforcement military. he knows that the end of the line he's believed to be responsible for killing three people. there is no justification for murder, and at this point there is no reason for him to surrender unless he wants to make his case public one more time and, of course, law enforcement will give him that chance if he wants to. >> clint, do stay on the line with us, but i want to go back to our correspondent john yang in burbank, california. i believe you have some information about police officers who may have been injured today. >> that's right. we're hearing on scanner traffic about two officers who have been wounded. we believe they are both state

fish and wildlife officers. they have been extracted from the main zone where the gunfight is going on. they have been taken to another they're trying to establish a landing zone to get a medevac helicopter in to take them out. we have according to the scanner traffic two officers who have been wounded. i can give you a little more detail about how this has all come about. as you said, there was this report of a home invasion. someone was able to get loose, make a 911 call, and they had reported this vehicle stolen from the home. it was a white dodge pickup truck. it was spotted and sheriff's deputies gave chase. that somehow was either -- ran off the road or there was an accident, and sheriff's deputies were able to follow footprints in the snow into the woods, and that's where they have gotten into this confrontation with dorner.

there was automatic weapons fire. there was an early report on the scanner traffic, the police radio, that he had -- was believed to at least have a handgun with a silencer, and he has now been firing at officers with automatic weapons and has hit at least two officers, and they have been evacuated from the area, and they're now waiting for a medevac helicopter to come in and take them off to medical care. martin? >> obviously, john, we're following this breaking story, and there's some confusion and things are obviously becoming clearer by the minute, but you referred earlier to a state wildlife officer who had been injured, shot. is he in addition to the two police officers you just referenced or is he one of the same? >> he is one of the same. we understand that both of these officers are state fish and wildlife officers. that they are not -- this is, you know, an area where the resort area, fishing, gaming,

hunting, skiing, and these people would also be part of sort of the peace officers in the area who would have responded to the call. they have been part of the search and would have been responding to the call once there was a search under way or a chase under way. these are the officers who were involved in the shootout with dorner. >> john yang, our correspondent, do stay with us, john. but we're going to click in and listen to the local affiliate knbc for a moment. let's take a listen. >> about 30 miles from big bear going northbound and there's another media truck that was there that was stopped as well. so it is such a dangerous situation up there. they're not letting at least us and this other media truck up that road. a lot of police cars whizzing by in both directions, both north toward the big bear area but also south on the 210 as well. the area is in lockdown right now and just spoke to some drivers as well. a little frustrated they can't

get up there, but the whole area, all mountain roads, shut down, and we imagine that's going to be a while. right now we're actually heading south on the 210 to colton to arrowhead regional medical center because of reports the two officers that were reportedly down are at that hospital. so we will head to the hospital and try to get in contact with someone at the hospital and see what the latest is and what the conditions are of those two officers and it may have been the police activity we saw going south on the 210 was toward the hospital to check on the condition. >> will was saying last time we checked in with him that they were actually trying to establish an area for the emergency helicopter to come in and grab those deputies. are you hearing now from your sources that the deputies are already in the hospital potentially receiving treatment? >> yeah. that's what we're hearing is that they were taken to arrowhead region medical center in colton, but no word on their

conditions to the extent of their injuries. so we're trying to find that out, trying to make some phone calls and hopefully get some good news as far as their conditions are concerned. >> all right. we want to go -- thanks so much. stay with us. let's get back to gordon at lapd headquarters -- >> you have been listening to our local affiliate knbc who are reporting that christopher dorner committed a residential burglary of a cabin earlier today. he tied up a couple in the cabin, one was able to get away and make an emergency call. we understand that he's been in some kind of gunfight with police officers. two police officers have been injured. they've been medevacked to a regional medical center. we still have with us former fbi profiler clint van zandt. this individual, christopher dorner, has made it clear in his manifesto that he intends to die

rather than be taken, as it were, alive in these circumstances. does that mean that he's going to fire upon police officers at any moment in this situation? >> i'm sorry, martin. are you talking to me? >> i am, clint. i was asking you about christopher dorner who has made it clear in his manifesto that he intends to die. >> yeah. you hope law enforcement is going to have the opportunity not to do that, but as you're reporting or as we're hearing from your affiliates with two officers already down and with the potential that he at least have semiautomatic weapons or more, he may well not give the officers any other choice than to resolve this tactically. realize, martin, there's a lot of people over the years that say they're going to go down in a hail of bullets, say they're going to die and at the last second, they make a decision to lay their weapon down for a lot of reasons, anywhere from they simply want to live to they have a statement they want to make

and they think that without being captured, without surrendering, their statement will never be made. so law enforcement will give him that chance, but realize what we're hearing right now is that there has been or may be right now a firefight going on with dorner having at least semiautomatic weapons, probably multiple weapons and ammunition based upon his law enforcement and military background, and i can just tell you from experience, law enforcement is not going to expose themselves any more to have any more officers injured. if they can resolve this tactically, they will do it, and hopefully will do it quickly before anybody else is hurt. >> clint van zandt, thank you so much. let's go back to john yang, our correspondent, who is at burbank in california. john, mr. dorner has made it clear that he's on a mission of revenge following that firing in

2008. and you were reporting earlier across radio circuits that you were listening to that mr. dorner was involved in a firefight with two, possibly more, officers. is that right? >> that's correct. this is outside big bear lake in the san bernardino mountains. he is in this manifesto, this so-called manifesto he posted online last week, made clear that this is all to do with a case of his dismissal. he was dismissed after it was determined that he made false reports about another fellow officer. he had claimed that a fellow officer had kicked a person that they were trying to move away from a hotel and that this officer was actually his training officer, had talked him out of including that information in the report. he then got pangs of conscience, went back several weeks later,

amended this report, that there was this excessive force used. there was an investigation. it was determined that the -- there was no evidence to support his claim that excessive force was used. they then said that he had filed this false report and, therefore, was dismissed from the force. this has been clearly a festering wound with him ever since. he talks about how the lapd took his name. they ruined his life. he talks about going into a severe depression after this. and his -- the first person he killed or allegedly killed we should say, the first alleged attack in this was the daughter of his union rep, retired lapd captain who was his union rep, and his extraction of revenge on this guy was to kill his daughter, michelle qua n who is an assistant basketball coach.

he then was engaged in a fire fight with cops who were guarding another target that police officers -- that the lapd people that he had grievances again, and that's what started this latest spiral of violence. he then got involved when riverside police were responding to that, he killed a policeman at a stoplight, wounded another policeman, and then has been on this chase which has now lasted six days, and now apparently is involved in a gunfight outside big bear like. >> john yang, thank you so much. we're going to listen in to the local affiliate knbc again as they report. *->> whaflt are you hearing? >> t